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Vegans plan to feast on my children
By AngryToxicologist | May 22, 2007
The internet is a great place, no? You can find this, and this, and this.
You can also be totally nasty because you’re anonymous. As the saying goes, no one knows you’re a dog on the internet. I received not 1 reasoned e-mail in response to yesterday’s post on vegans (although there were two commenters who passed the test). I did, however, receive, 10s of nasty comments, some threatening to eat my children to see how I would like that (Mr Tyson, I know that one of those must be you; didn’t know you were vegan) and some threatening to have their “puppies” do it. One also threatened to gut me like a pig, but them being vegan I’m not sure what this means (I would’ve gone with the more eloquent, and appropriate, seed me like a squash). To recap, I said that all vegans don’t starve their children, but a vegan diet is not healthy for children. Vegetarian is totally fine. Apparently, this statement was on par with killing someone’s grandmother because now my children and in danger of being consumed. If hearing a few facts is so distressing that it makes you want to commit infanticide, then stop reading science blogs for God’s sake. If you’ve got some reason why I’m wrong, I’m open to that, I’ve been wrong in the past and it certainly will happen again. This is what scientists do, they argue with facts, pressing their side with data. They do not, that I am aware, threaten each other or feast on families. And really, you’re not helping your cause by sending bizarre threats with bad grammar. And you’re making the majority of sane vegans in the world look rather silly. This also applies to the hand full of “F#$%in’ leaf eaters” comments I got.
At one time or another I’m sure what I write will raise the ire of industries, gov’t agencies, activist groups, and yes even academic scientists, but you’ll just have to wait your turn (or read the archives). Until then, enjoy reading. Keep it civil. Yeah, that means you too, you dogs.
Topics: Uncategorized |
May 22nd, 2007 at 11:09 pm
I like your blog. Don’t let the crazy vegans (no, not all vegans are crazy) get you down.
May 23rd, 2007 at 10:30 am
We are seeing what happens when you are not just reasoning with facts but also reasoning with emotions. It’s the same thing that happens in religious debates. The problem is, you can’t argue faith. But that won’t stop people from trying.
Often, ‘reality’ (which, BTW, is what we’re debating) gets chucked out the door in favor of emotional arguments that are supplemented by cherry-picked “facts” that are chosen to support the belief. Why do you think one of the commenters in the other thread was quoting some obscure study from China? This is what the chemical industry does when they are trying to skirt regulatory controls and get something approved that wouldn’t otherwise be if everything was above board.
I don’t have a problem with vegans, vegetarians, fruitarians, or whatnot — that just means more meat for me — people should eat whatever makes them happy. Everyone is entitled to their viewpoint and they are certainly not wrong for believing whatever they choose to believe. But they often forget that it is exactly that: a choice. Don’t like meat? Don’t eat it! But don’t bother me about it because I like to eat it. If it’s not your thing, keep your opinions to yourself, stop preaching, and don’t make value judgments about others.
I don’t like it when right-wing religious fanatics proselytize. Food crazies aren’t any different. What could Colbert do? Crazy vegans, you are on notice!
Let’s eat, shall we?
May 23rd, 2007 at 12:09 pm
Perhaps another area where the established medical community needs to be more vocal.
http://www.cantonrep.com/index.php?ID=355716&Category=15&subCategoryID=0
A kid’s parents refused chemo for him (85% chance of survival) in favor of ‘holistic’ treatments and ‘better’ diet. Now, not that the medical community is always right, but there seems to be a lot of thought out there that everyone can figure complex medical decisions out on their own. If a holistic method actually worked, wouldn’t someone patent it, get it approved by the FDA and make some $$?
May 24th, 2007 at 9:08 am
Wow! We all were well aware that “Social Security” is considered to be the THIRD RAIL in politics…
Who know that critiques of vegan child care is the THIRD RAIL in toxicology & dietetics!?!?
p.s. Is there an official FDA recognized title for an all cheese diet???
June 6th, 2007 at 9:45 pm
Just thought you might want to read another point of view~
http://www.thechinastudy.com/authors.html
And although I know you can’t get into the private part of the website, you can check out a bit here(Dr. Fuhrman does sell a vegan DHA supplement)~
www.drfuhrman.com
I think it’s fair to point out that most omnivores’ diets are woefully constructed. Considering the number one veggie in the US is potatoes(primarily eaten as french fries and chips), I’ll take a well planned, phytochemical/antioxidant rich diet over the omnivore’s(and even some vegans’) norm. The vegans I know with children(I am one of them!)
take huge amounts of care with their kids’ diets. Breastfeeding isn’t just best, it’s the biological norm and should be continued past the first year, and despite the APA’s watery stance on the subject, it should also be continued until at least 18 months(formula should be continued to be used until that time as well). Actually anthropologically speaking, the age of weaning should occur sometime between 3 and 7 years of age.
When studying the breastmilk of vegan moms, one would really have to look closely at their diets. If they had been eating lots of raw nuts and seeds and also not consuming high omega 6 refined oils, I’d bet their DHA profiles would have improved. Our body makes DHA from ALA and has a tremendous capacity to deal with scarcity(would that we had an adaptation for a sedentary lifestyle and eating to excess! Darn!). That said, most people would benefit from a small amount of DHA daily(vegan is available), even omnivores(although they can easily use a pharmaceutical grade fish oil). I would even go so far as to say that most people in our omega 6 saturated nutritionally limited country are woefully deficient in omega 3’s and many other things, some found in the plant world exclusively.
Given that most people are NOT vegan and that the number one killer in the US is heart disease one might ask if the fatty, sugary, animal food laden diet of Americans may have something to do with it. Here is some info on that(although I vehemently disagree with Dr. Esselstyn’s view of nuts, seeds and avocados)~
http://www.heartattackproof.com/
Also, it seems like a bit of a distraction to say that cow’s milk(or cow’s milk formula) is better than soy milk(or soy milk formula). In the first 18 months of life, ANYTHING is a poor, poor substitute for breastmilk.
Actually, some of us vegans don’t even use soy except in very small quantities. Our family does occasionally use an organic, no sweetener, non fortified soy milk(just soybeans and water). We eat LOTS of raw nuts and seeds.
I would hope that most vegans would put their health(and their children’s health) above any vegan ideals. I know I would. It is possible that some people have trouble converting essential amino acids into non-essential ones. Also, some people may be poor ALA converters. I do think that number is likely pretty small as the body is remarkably efficient at getting what it needs out of foods. We evolved in scarcity, not abundance.
On a purely frustrated note, please, please, please don’t lump in nutjobs like the ones in the article with vegans. Those people’s entire paradigm was skewed from the get go. It is easy as pie for a baby to do fine with a vegan mom breastfeeding him/her…lots of nuts, seeds, avocados, fruits, veggies, beans and some whole grains will do it. A b-12 supplement and perhaps a small amount of vegan DHA are all the supplements one needs to fortify a vegan diet. When people trot out vit d, I point out quickly that milk is fortified with it. So that is, in essence a supplement and one I think is advisable for everyone not in tropical climates and getting lots of good sunshine.
Given the small possibility of deficiencies on a vegan diet, and the HUGE problems caused by the standard Amercian diet for kids, I’d say the latter is a far more urgent concern.
Anecdotally, my kids don’t get sick like their peers(and when they get sick, they get well really fast), their weight is very healthy, they are athletic and active(the kids are 17, 10 and 8). Our careful attention to nutrition research, what we need to eat and what we need to avoid(added salt, refined oils, sugar, refined grains, etc.) has paid off. ALL people planning diets hoping to give children the best chance for health should be planning carefully.
Sorry some people were very ugly to you. Vegans who go that route should be particularly ashamed of themselves for that kind of behavior. Veganism is supposed to be about embodying compassion for ALL creatures, including humans!
July 23rd, 2007 at 10:49 am
“But they often forget that it is exactly that: a choice. Don’t like meat? Don’t eat it! But don’t bother me about it because I like to eat it.”
Not much of a choice for a baby put on a vegan diet by their parents.